The Mini-burger

FanFic in the Birmoverse

J. Edgar Whoever. posted 12/29/05

‘Kay.

I figure none of us are putting in much keyboard time at the moment so I thought I’d post a little pepsi challenge for everyone to play with over the next few days.

Who can guess what happens to J Edgar Hoover in the Transition Universe?

A secret gold star to the kiddie who gets closest.

In other news, we were going to have a New Year’s Party at our place but I canned it in favor of a house warming in late January when everyone gets back from holidays. (Not that the place needs warming. Goddamn but it’s hot here right now.)

Of course, having canned it via email, I can still see a dozen or so people turning up, bottles in hand, looking to par-tay on NYE. I just got a txt message from one who was bringing a truckload of ring-ins.

Think I’m gonna have to buy in some ice and some drinks for the stragglers anyway.

Anyway. Gotta go. About to have lunch at my fave Thai place. The Spirit House, up on the north coast. It’s this awesome place, built out in the forest near Noosa. We’re meeting some buds for a feed by the water.

 

From justin on 12/28/05

 

he gets “exposed” to the general public by the 21c’ers and moves to the zone to live with his “special friend”? lol

 

From DarkAngel on 12/28/05

 

John,

Wishing you and the family a GREAT new year in 2006. Congrads on the third entry to the Axis. Looking forward to the release and seeing them all make into movies! LOL

 

From Lobes on 12/28/05

 

Filling the huge void left by Joe McCarthy?

 

From kyee7k on 12/28/05

 

he’s “asked” to resign after the war, but by then his power base is in ashes. clueless and having no future, he and his “long-time” companion moves to the free enterprise zone and attempts a return to the political stage as a mayor, or senator, or a governor.

or he becomes the first burlesque drag queen. ;P

 

From Anonymous on 12/29/05

 

He gets a new job selling vaccuum cleaners.

 

From Vallon Davis on 12/29/05

 

He finally goes off his rocker and tries to assiniate Kolhammer, but is gunned down agents Flint and Stirling

 

From savo on 12/29/05

 

(NOTE: the comment below is not actually from a journalspace member. Their IP has been logged.)

He is threatened with exposure (21C’er wouldn’t see it as a grave punishment to be outed) and ends up leaving the FBI to take up his own evangalist TV show denouncing Kolhammer & the rest of the 21ers (send money to have your sins forgiven and to fight the unholy Kplhammer and his blasphemers, praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!) until he is arrested a’la Huge Grant in flagrante delicto with a street tranny whilst wearing only girly underpants and a sheepish smile.
Most of his followers demounce him but a few hard core fellow travellers including his nancy boy (can’t remember his name), form themselves into a major terroist concern, taking up the tactics of the still born Al Quada and so the cycle goes on.

(If it actually happens like this I don’t know who is sicker – the professional writer or the crazy person trying to guess what he wrote)

ciao.

 

From Tucker Dwynn on 12/29/05

 

Tries to have Kolhammer asssinated in Dallas.

or

Heart attack. It sounds like he drinks a ton, and doesnt have the nest eating habbits.

or

Looney Bin. Paranoia sets in and he cracks under the strain.

Just my 3 cents…

 

From Todd on 12/29/05

 

Hoover

proposes to Tolson and has a huge Catholic wedding officiated by an MEU chaplain in the Zone with 8 bridesmaids and 8 groomsmen – all of whom are gun-toting FBI gumshoes.

🙂

Now, for my real prediction, I’m figuring on Hoover blowing his brains out when the NYT overcomes his threats and Duffy publishes an expose on his trysts with Tolson.

 

From Brandon Clark on 12/29/05

 

Rumor has it that Hoover was in close with La Costra Nostra, The Italian Mob, he was blackmailed into denying the existence of Organized Crime.

Well, the Italians like what they see in the up-timers, equality and colorblindness, plus a sort of respect for hard-core people…

Plus the mobsters are businessmen and get inleague with the up-timers. Long Story short the Mafia whack him, place him in cement shoes and toss him in the Potomac…

 

From SFMurphy on 12/29/05

 

I wonder if Kolhammer wouldn’t use The Quiet Room in some way to burn Hoover’s barn down. He knows he has a fight on his hands with Hoover and conversely, Hoover knows that Kolhammer knows about his bedroom activities.

Respects,
Steve
Northtown, Missouri

 

From Brandon Clark on 12/29/05

 

Another option for Hoover, gay porn industry!!!!!

 

From on 12/29/05

 

Nice review on scifi. com http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue442/books.html

 

From prufrock on 12/29/05

 

J. Edgar’s Karma is to keep being reincarnated as a gay person in a hostile environment, like Matthew Shepard. Over and over again. And Joe McCarthy is destined to keep repeating others’ mistakes in a sysiphean cycle of persecution. Plus, they both have to wait tables at Friday’s, and they never have the requisite amount of flair.

 

From Birmo on 12/29/05

 

These are all good. We already have a winner. But keep em coming anyway. I might change my mind in rewrite.

 

From alcones1 on 12/29/05

 

John, are we invited to the house cooling party?, and I wish you a very happy, healthy and prosperous New Year 2006!

 

From ajdenny on 12/29/05

 

If it’s the Mafia wack job, I’d stick with that. It’s the same sort of satirical reflection of our world that’s made the series so interesting to read.

 

From Brandon Clark on 12/29/05

 

Someone won? What do they get? A copy of the pre-published manuscript????? Maybe inserted into the storyline somewhere?

 

 

From pegleg on 12/29/05

 

Hoover and Clyde form an “act” and perform at Slim Jim’s club in NYC.

Hope this series goes beyond 3 books, John. It’s so much fun!

Pegleg

 

From Lobes on 12/29/05

 

Knowing Birmos style whatever happened to Hoover is bound to be ironic.

 

From Madoc on 12/29/05

 

Folks,

I could easily see Hoover eating his gun – the firearm type of gun. Eventually, one of the nation’s papers _will_ run the story of his antics with Clyde and that’ll be it. With such hypocrisy exposed he’ll be on the way down so fast that none of his blackmail material will do him any good.

Once he’s at that point he’d have no other option open to him. I don’t think he’d be of much use to any of the uptimer’s enemies as his hypocrisy would damn him too utterly in the eyes of the ‘temps. He’d be spent and a pariah. A .38 caliber retirement would be a blessing for him at that point.

I really can’t see Hoover fleeing to the Zone. It’d be too public an admission and besides, what future would he have there? No one there would trust the guy nor want to be breathing the same air with him. Not after the hell he’d put so many of them there through.

Nope, suicide is his only option.

At least that’s what I’d expect for the guy. Seein’ as how this isn’t my tale to tell though…

Madoc

 

From robbie beare on 12/30/05

 

It being the penultimate evening of the year, may I wish you John and your family a happy new year, as well as all the readers and posters to this fine blog.

My Mum cut out and posted me your fine piece on New Year’s Eve that you wrote for Sydney Morning Herald’s Sunday Life’s “And Another Thing”.

I loved your line “If the bell curve tells us anything, it’s that half the population is of below-average intelligence. And if experience tells me anything, it’s that every single one of them is pissed by nine o’clock on New Year’s and looking for someone else’s shoes to throw up on, their own already being full.

I wish I had you as a statistics lecturer when I was trying to get my Mathematics degree at UQ.

So having read your piece, I’m glad to be working till 10:30pm. Last year we went to South Bank for the fireworks and did not get home till after 3:00am. Never Again. Maybe this year I could crash your cancelled party? Went to the Continental in New Farm on Tuesday for lunch and saw USS Hamman’s Lieutenant Nick Earls.

 

From Flanker_Driver on 12/30/05

 

Hi Birmo (Our Cheeseburger Deluxe) 😉 and all Cheeseburgers…

Not much good in the the predictions stakes re: Hoover, but whatever you decide, Birmo, I know it will be good (and ironic, yes). Happy 2006 to everyone, and at least we all know that spreading the word about BirmoVerse IS one New Year’s resolution we’ll all keep! Heck, it’s the ONLY NY resolution I’ve EVER made. 🙂

 

From dread73 on 12/30/05

 

G’day Birmo,

I’ll have a crack.

Hoover and other ‘temps of his like mind and attitude band together to try and root out any 21C influence and propaganda that tries too take root in the general temp population. With McCarthy dead in the Birmo-verse, Hoover and his cronies fill that void and instead of ‘Reds under the Bed’ it’ll be 21c’ers IN your bed. Complete with fists banging on tables and Senate hearings. He might get a bit of leeway under Truman….if Truman ever takes power now that Rooseveldt looks like he’ll be backing up a few more years….I’m guessing Rooseveldt hands straight over to Ike and Ike being a bit of a 21c fanboi will give them a bit more latitude. Hoovers power/influence/crusade will die with JFK taking the reigns of power, if he survives the war, since his ‘lifestyle’ would be right up the 21c’ers alley…so to speak….

For Hoovers cronies….I’m not that au fait with other 50’s cronies of McCarthy so Ican’t recommend any….

Have a good new years mate, and remember, its XXXX up here or you will be beaten to death with your own arms AFTER they’ve been ripped off 🙂

Dave

 

From col on 12/31/05

 

Somebody throws a glass of water on him, and he melts, screaming ‘Help me! I’m melting!”

 

From J on 12/31/05

 

Hoover? Hmmmm. Karmic forces make themselves known to him.

Although I think Hoover was evil, there are more serious villans at the time. For instance, there was a senior State Department official who denied Jewish escapees entrance to the U.S.

All I’m saying is that there were equally if not nastier folks in America and Australia. Hoover is an easy target because he was a thuggish, viscious, and hypocritically gay. What about the Karl Roves, Dick Cheney, John Howards, etc. of the day?

Happy New Year!

 

From Brandon Clark on 12/31/05

 

There are worse people in this day and age then Cheney, Rove and Baby Boy Bush… Ever heard of the mullahs in Iran, the Dear Leader in North Korea who is starving his people, tyrants in Africa overseeing genocidal wars and drug pushing terrorists in Columbia.

And in WWII, Hoover and other ne’er-do-wells are pansies compared to the Nazis, the Imperialist Military regime in control of Japan and the Bolsheviks in the Soviet Union.

I for one and rather sick of people having more contempt for Rove, or Cheney or Baby Boy Bush then contempt for monsters like Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, Ill Kim in North Korea and the Persian dictators threatening nuclear war…

Even as a liberal I am sick of it.

 

From savo on 12/31/05

 

(NOTE: the comment below is not actually from a journalspace member. Their IP has been logged.)

Here here Brandon.

We should never forget that while we bitch about our domestic leaders, their ‘sins’ are not even a shadow compared to what the monster lurking out there do. Feel yourself lucky that you can bitch about them just don’t get lost in the rhoteric.

J: I was going to put a rant here about “Why are the people in government the only ‘evil’ ones,” you say in your first part to look beyond the obvious but just don’t bother with your next comment.

…but it’s too hot 44 C.

Happy New Year. 😉

 

From J on 01/01/06

 

Brandon/Savo,

Obviously, all of the international murders you mention are bad guys, scum of the Earth, however, they aren’t Americans or Australians or Brits?

Please re-read my comment: My concern was with just focusing on Hoover as the only historical American villan of the times. I mentioned this because I thought it unfair to single out only Hoover as being the epitome of all things wrong with America; thus, my mentioning of the anti-Semitic state department official.

J. Edgar Hoover was not the only racist, cruel, corrupt politician or historical figure of the time. Henry Ford was a virulent anti-Semite who wrote a book about the evils of the “International Jew.” Charles Lindbergh was a Nazi sympathizer, who was not allowed to join the war efforts because of his prominent support of Hitler. There a large number of politicians who did not the U.S. in WW2 until Pearl Harbor.
Father Coughlin was a famous Catholic priest who had a national broadcast in which he decried the evil of the Jews. His program was forced off the air right before the start of the war.

As for Dick Cheney or Karl Rove, they are similar to Hoover in terms of their corruption and abuse of power in the American political system. Thus, your suggestion that I mention Hitler & company as alternatives is again slanderous and outrageous. Rove and Cheney have never to my knowledge held genocidal beliefs. In Britain, there was the British National Party, a fascist organization. In the U.S., there was the German Bund, a group of Nazi sympathizers. During WW2, many members were interned; but some weren’t. Couldn’t some of these people serve as equally odious villans?

Frankly, Brandon & Savo, I’m surprised that you didn’t try to find alternate examples of corrupt Americans of liberal/progressive backgrounds instead of knee-jerk conservative reactions defending Rove and Cheney. Why not go for a Huey Long or someone else? Hell, I would have expected a Hanoi Jane Fonda.. but Stalin?

Hoover or Cheney in the same company as Hitler or Saddam or narco terroists? No freakin’ way! Apples and Elephants. I may not like Cheney, but I’d never put him on the same planet as a Kim Il Jung. I’m surprised you would.

 

 

From savo on 01/01/06

 

(NOTE: the comment below is not actually from a journalspace member. Their IP has been logged.)

J: I did but thought I was going overboard. here is what I deleted: Heavy-handed sure they have more power but people like Cheney & Howard were voted in by people just like you and me. (I admit the Russians wanted the UN to investigated voting irregularities in Florida but didn’t push the point) Why not castigate back stabbing bas&$rd5 like Beasley, (I’m pretty sure Mark Latham would agree as well as everyone else who was cowed by Kim’s treachery) or the dangerously ham fisted fair weather friends like Brown and his ilk or turn coats like John Kerry and his lawyer running mate Edwards – he was one of those solicitors we all complain about who used to get outragous sums for payouts for petty litigations. Or Ros Kelly treating us all with contempt with her whiteboard, or the branch stacking in NSW or the Loans arrair or the PM’s knowledge of the East Timor invasion in 1975. If EGW was that popular he would have been voted back in a month or two later but his party was routed] or Harvard university not allowing critical examination of the Koran as a course or the 1984 Nobel Peace Prize nominee calling for bloody revolution and then winning the Peace Prize

You say in your first part look beyond the obvious and just don’t bother with your next comment.

 

From savo on 01/01/06

 

(NOTE: the comment below is not actually from a journalspace member. Their IP has been logged.)

J: sorry about the last line just a copy of the original NOT an iteration.

savo

 

From ajdenny on 01/01/06

 

There’s god and bad on both sides. Each just likes to think they are made up of one more then the other.

 

From J on 01/01/06

 

Savo,

“Turn coats like John Kerry and his lawyer running mate Edwards”? Savo, you don’t understand American politics or the histories of the men you’ve just slandered. Kerry was no turncoat. He was a decorated war hero. The allegations against Kerry were just another example of Karl Rove’s slimeball tactics (you should look into how Rove once started a rumor that a political rival was a pedophile) while George Bush used his father’s influence to jump to the head of the line for a place in the Texas National Guard to avoid serving in Viet Nam. Dick Cheney got 5(!) deferals to avoid going to Vietnam.

In fact, virtually all of the major Republican officials who were eligible for service in Vietnam avoided it like the plague.

As for John Edwards, Edwards was no ambulance chaser. That was another slimeball attack. Edwards became famous for successfully suing a pool pump manufacturer that knowingly sold a pump responsible for maiming a number of children. Edwards’ case involved a young girl who swam to close to a pump intake. The suction was so intense the girl became stuck against the intake opening, her flesh was torn away and her intestines sucked out!

Here’s the story: http://www.monkeytime.org/lakey.html

I can’t talk in depth about Australian politics. When it comes to international affairs, Australia isn’t covered much in the U.S. media or history classes. Europe and the Mid-East receive more coverage (though most people couldn’t tell you who is head of state for Israel or Germany). I’ve read about Pauline Hanson’s horrible history. I’m only familiar with some of John Howards’ history, which resembles the moves of many right-wing American politician.

 

From Brandon Clark on 01/01/06

 

In conversations I’ve had alot of the more Michael Moore-esque liberals compare Bush to Hitler or Stalin (funny that they would dislike Stalin since most of them are fellow-travelers…. And for you information I am a libertarian

In this day and age we got some bad cookies in both the Democratic Parties and the Republicans. An example of the Republicans is Bob Barr. Back from June 2000 to Jan 2003 I was a Marine, classified as Pagan. Bush didn’t even know if Wiccans should be considered Citizens… I am not a Bush lover but neither do I consider him or his cronies to be as Corrupt as LBJ or Nixon.

But, anyone like Barr or Bush in this day and age is an exception, someone outside the norm. Where as somone like Hoover or another corrupt racist in the 1940s often fit right into a racist and sexist America. It isn’t certain people in America circa WWII that are the problem, it is America itself.

It would be cool if Kolhammer got called before the House Un-American Activities Committee and gave a rousing passionate speech against contemporary America. Nations cannot righteously fight the opressive regimes of the world when they themselves are opressive.

Roosevelt should sign the Executive Order integrating the Military in the next book…

 

From Mark R. Whittingto on 01/02/06

 

My best guess is that Hoover goes too far in trying to oppose the 21st Century folks and is taken down in turn for undermining the war effort.

Just a note to “J”. It’s surprising the sort of things Karl Rove gets accused of. One would think that in the imagination of some he was the secret ruler of the world. John Kerry was actually taken down by his fellow Swift Boat vets, led by a Democratic lawyer and John Edwards supporter from Houston named John O’Neil. Ironically this is the same John O’Neil who humiliated Kerry on the Dick Cavett show during Kerry’s Vietnam Veterans against the War days when Kerry was going around comparing the American Army in Vietnam to the Army of “Chingas Khan” and accusing all Vietnam vets of war crimes. Kerry kind of dug his own grave when he declined to run in 2004 on his record (too left) or his agenda (really too left), but tried instead to get to the White House on his medals. When the Swift Boat vets pointed out the suspicious circumstances surrounding those medals (not a unique problem, btw, as medal inflation was rampant in Nam), Kerry was doomed.

 

From J on 01/02/06

 

Brandon,

“Fellow traveler”? Come on, that’s so 1950s it’s beyond the pale. No 21st century “liberal” American has any sympathies for Joe Stalin Communists. All stable, successful democratic countries have social programs. Countries that don’t are the poorest or most unstable or dictatorial nations. If you want to look at country that is capitalist with few social programs, look at Russia. It’s an oligarchy and a dystopian nightmare. To settle business disputes, businessmen/gangsters kill each other, burn down the competition, or, as happened last week, plant gas bombs in competitors’ stores. It’s insane. The divide between rich and poor is a social Darwinist’s paradise.

 

From prufrock on 01/02/06

 

Who are these guys?

Anyway, Birmo, I sent a copy of the weekend wrap-up from ol’ Zarqawi to the news desk at Al Jazeera. I wonder if they’ll get it. As in, “do ya get it?”
Doesn’t matter…. it is still one of the funniest things of 2005.

Happy New Year!

 

From Brandon Clark on 01/02/06

 

The fellow-traveler bit was a joke.

My pesonal opinion. No matter what the Bush administration does it is doomed to be disliked by the opposite side of the aisle. Furthermore, if Gore or Kerry had led America into Iraq he would be facing very similar criticisms being thrown at the current Administration.

Kerry flip-flopped so damn badly, he changed his views with the political winds and then distorted what he said previously to try to cover up his last position. And then he had the gaul to insult every man and woman who served in a US Uniform in Vietnam. He had no respect for anyone it seemed, even those whom he commanded and ordered into harm’s way…

Call Bush what you will, but Kerry was totally unstable political wise. I didn’t know if he was going to nuke Tehran or capitulate!

Of course I see no one in the higher rungs of the political food chain worth voting for if they happen to run for the top dog position. All of them are yellow dog Republicans or Democrats or tried and true politicians who would screw John and Jane Q. Public for a dollar.

 

From J on 01/02/06

 

Mark,

All of the Swift Boat crap was proved to be a lie.
Sadly, the Swift Boat controversy simply showed that if you tell a lie long enough, people will believe it to be true.

http://swiftvets.eriposte.com/

As for Karl Rove, sociopaths who have a long, documented history like Rove’s eventually get their comeuppence, and it’s looking like Federal prosecutor Fitzgerald has his eye on Karl…

After Deep Throat was revealed, I found it fascinating how all of the crooks who were sent to jail were interviewed and said what a horrible person he was; how dare he betray his president. Funny, I thought it was the duty of an FBI agent to expose criminal activity. G. Gordon Liddy and crew were criminals who got caught. Nixon wasn’t impeached by just Democrats, it was a bipartisan decision because he betrayed the laws of the United States.

It’s funny how people never learn, spying on Americans without a warrant is illegal and shows a disregard for the Rule of Law. No person is above the law. The U.S. is a republican democracy, not a monarchy.

It used to be that American Conservatives said that they were about small government, fiscal restraint, and not allowing the government to legislate morality (especially if that morality was to prevent discrimination against people of color). All of that his been tossed out the window. Separation of Church and State? Bah humbug! There’s a War Against Christmas!! Yep, Jesus was really born in December and the Pilgrims happily put up Christmas trees and sang “White Christmas” in anticipation of Santa coming down the chimney. And every good Christian knows that it’s a sin for Wal-Mart not to commercialize Christmas… I’m sure when God sent His only Son to Earth he did it with the vision of stores making their biggest profits of the year. (Silly me, when I went to my evangelical church as a kid, we were warned against materialism and the commericialization of Christmas. Christmas was supposed to be a day to give thanks for the coming of the Messiah and not a cheap political ploy to divide and conquer the public.) Of course, it’s interesting how both Fox News and the RNC had either “Holiday Parties” or “Happy Holidays” messages on their websites.

When Conservatives now talk about virtue and ethics and morality, it’s easy to say sure then how about explaining the ends-justifies-the-means attitudes. As if Jesus would lie, cheat, and destroy his opponents to win.

Yeah, Jesus would really approve of married Bill O’Reilly sexually harrassing his subordinant and offering to give her a special treatment with a falafel (nee loofa) in the shower.
(http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn11272004.html)

Yep, Rudy Giuliani who cheated on his wife, moved his mistress into the family home and announced his divorce on TV before telling his wife is a great candidate for president. Did that whole infidelity thing become an issue for Bill Clinton. But that’s right, Conservatives can do no wrong.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/06/21/politics/main512992.shtml
http://www.slate.com/id/82419
http://www.ariannaonline.com/columns/column.php?id=178

And isn’t interesting how anti-abortion, “Christian” Leader Randall Terry can now lead the charge against gay rights after committing adultery and dumping his wife for a hot young thing. Heck, Terry even has time to denounce his gay son, too.

http://www.therefinersfire.org/homosexual_editorial.htm
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/144/story_14449_4.html
http://www.operationsaveamerica.org/articles/articles/rt-unscruplous-pitch.htm

Pat Robertson, a “Christian” minister can call for the assassination of the democratically elected president of Venezuela and still continue to preach to his flock. Robertson can also say that it’s okay for Chinese government to force Chinese women to have an abortion. After all, a Chinese life isn’t as precious as an American life?

There’s more than enough crap to go around against all sides; it’s the hypocrisy that’s appalling.

Look this conversations is old. No one’s going to agree. There’s a lot of mud to sling. I’d rather focus on alt-history goodness that is the Axis of Time Trilogy.

 

From Brandon Clark on 01/02/06

 

Wow, this sort of turned into a political thread.

My last two coppers worth.

Rove and company (for all their abuse of powers and corruptions that they may or may have not done) are absolute saints compared to the average in America.

I have said enough things on-line and in chatrooms to make any federal agent, CIA or NSA guy looking in very suspicious of me. And I have not recieved a visit from any law-enforcement officer, nor have I had my medical records looked at and no one has broken into my house (I would know).

As for warrantless searches, that is a misnomer. A Judge okays it, still. And those searches are for one reason only, to attain intelligence that is counter-terrorism related to help stop terrorist events from happening. Any non-terrorism related evidence is inadmissable in court on any other charges, if they find child pornography in the course of a search they cannot use it in a child-pornography case.

As for NSA phone-tappings that has been going on since the 80s I think. An agent is not listening in on a domestic phone call, not even on a international phone call. International phone calls are scanned by computer and if certain key words pop up in the conversation the call is recorded for later review of a specially trained agent. If it is found that the call is nothing important the record is destroyed. Again those recordings are not used in a court of law except for cases of terrorism or espionage.

And this: If we fight foreign terrorism the same way we were required to fight organized crime then it is useless. It is time to take off the kid-gloves, understand that it is time for war and cowboy the f*ck up.

Roosevelt didn’t have to go before a federal court to get a warrant to listen in on Japanese Imperial message traffic, nor a warrant to shoot Yamamoto’s plane down… I do not see why the CIA, the FBI and the NSA and the Military should treat certain animals of this world like US Citizens because of paranoid people are convinced the US government is using microwave satellites to listen in on their thoughts.

 

From ajdenny on 01/02/06

 

Roosevelt had an enemy to point to, and be able to declare war on. Who is that enemy now?

 

From MickH on 01/02/06

 

Just to throw the thread onto a more literary theme for the moment, I recieved a Matthew Rielly book from Santa, “Seven Ancient Wonders”.
I have never read him before and was very impressed with it. However when I read the Amazon reviews for it was was slain! Is this a usual thing for Amazon, I found the reviews Ridiculous. People were trying to apply literary constructs to an action thriller! but then I looked a little closer and found that all of the ones who really hammered the book were from the USA. Without giving away any spoilers, in this book, the US are the bad guys so I wonder if this had a factor.

Thinking about it I wondered how it would effect me if the Aussies were the bad guys and I must admit it would probably piss me off. I know that Tom Clancy’s “Rainbow Six” annoyed me for making us sound like Poms, so yes, I probably wouldn’t like it.

What do you guys think? Should an author be wary of what country they make the bad guys which could effect sales or should he/she rely on the strength of the story to carry the day?

 

From Flanker_Driver on 01/02/06

 

Hi everyone – I’m NOT saying I agree or disagree with the opinion, but does anyone know who said (and this is an approximate quote only) – ‘Anyone who is willing to give up personal freedom for personal safety deserves neither’? I’m not even sure how accurately I’ve worded this…

 

From Lobes on 01/02/06

 

MickH- definitely rely on the storywriting. Once you start meddling with the plot, characters etc to make other people happy you discredit your own work. I’m sure Matthew Riley will live through it, though it would be interesting to know if he took any of it onboard and how that might affect his next book.

As you observe on amazon some Americans can be rather thin skinned but the criticism they get from ‘us’ (ie: the rest of the world) is nothing compared to how they can take themselves apart (ie: rest of this thread)

Flanker- Just a guess but sounds like De Tocqueville.

 

From ajdenny on 01/02/06

 

Good on anyone who likes Matt Reilly’s novels. I’ve tried to like them, but the lack of character / themes / how he twists everything to suit his plots lasting one or two days, so turning suspension of disblief difficult to say the least, has make for tastes liking them a tall order indeed.

If anyone wants a thriller ride story, play Max Payne 2. It’s story is like Sin City, and you get to do all the shooting and exploding of stuff 🙂

 

From Lobes on 01/02/06

 

just wikiquoted de Tocqueville and found this:

“The man who asks of freedom anything other than itself is born to be a slave.”

Kind of the same sentiments but I’m not sure if that is the author or even the quote Flankers describing.

However ADT does come out with some gems:

“America is a country where they have freedom of speech but everyone says the same thing.”

“History is a gallery of pictures in which there are few originals and many copies.”

“There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is no party of principle.”

And many, many more.

 

From Lobes on 01/02/06

 

just wikiquoted de Tocqueville and found this:

“The man who asks of freedom anything other than itself is born to be a slave.”

Kind of the same sentiments but I’m not sure if that is the author or even the quote Flankers describing.

However ADT does come out with some gems:

“America is a country where they have freedom of speech but everyone says the same thing.”

“History is a gallery of pictures in which there are few originals and many copies.”

“There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is no party of principle.”

And many, many more.

 

From Lobes on 01/02/06

 

Whoops, Birmo you can delete that double-entry.

And this too if it becomes superfluous.

 

From savo on 01/02/06

 

(NOTE: the comment below is not actually from a journalspace member. Their IP has been logged.)

Benjamin Franklin:
“The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either.”

Also for our USC (US Cheeseburgers) have you ever come across a local government or in fact any governement body banning the flying of the National flag from a public building because some members of the community could be incided to racial hatred?? see http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story/0,20281,17714728-5001031,00.html or if you don’t like the telegraph

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1550365/posts

Birmo any problems with showing the News Corp article please don’t hesitate to delete.

 

 

From savo on 01/02/06

 

(NOTE: the comment below is not actually from a journalspace member. Their IP has been logged.)

Benjamin Franklin:
“The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either.”

Also for our USC (US Cheeseburgers) have you ever come across a local government or in fact any governement body banning the flying of the National flag from a public building because some members of the community could be incided to racial hatred?? see http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story/0,20281,17714728-5001031,00.html or if you don’t like the telegraph

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1550365/posts

Birmo any problems with showing the News Corp article please don’t hesitate to delete.

 

 

From savo on 01/02/06

 

(NOTE: the comment below is not actually from a journalspace member. Their IP has been logged.)

Aw crap Sanctioned 5 twice and stuffed up the entry. Brimo pls remove the double up tks.

 

From Brandon Clark on 01/02/06

 

Savo, the libs of this world will wind up legislating democracy, our freedoms and our lives into the hands of the Islamafascist Theocracies and their terrorists.

I like Barry Goldwater’s quote: Extremism in the Defense of Liberty is no vice. But I think it was Shakespeare who first penned that.

With respect to PATRIOT Act and stuff: it must be a balance between national security and individual freedoms. And there is no such thing as a legal warrantless search, it isn’t even in the patriot act.

 

From Lobes on 01/02/06

 

Time for an impro vox-pop. It seems to me (an Aussie) that Bush has got himself in some serious hot water over these illegal(?) wiretaps.

It looks quite serious, more so than the Lewinsky thing, but the rhetoric from USA strikes me as restrained considering. Is this just another scandal for Bush or is he actually facing a threat to his presidency?

At the moment it looks as if it could go either way. I was just wondering what our septic mates take on it was. Anybody?

 

From savo on 01/03/06

 

The wiretaps thing sounds like what Hoover’s FBI used to do as a matter of course before the America Civil Libeties Union got the Senate and Church Committee to stop it. I do remember watching a documentary that stated the ACLU was funded through a lawyer used exclusively by a NY mafia don. But documentaries are not always accurate or truthful reglardless of what people say about Michael Moore.
Damn I made a New Years resolution to keep away from political discussion, it didn’t last long, hope my diet lasts longer.

 

From savo on 01/03/06

 

Hey Birmo we know what Seation 4 is, we have been told that Sanction 5 exists, there has to be at least 3 others. Unless its a bit Monty Pythonish “Sanction 3, there is no sanction 3. Sanction 4, …”

So what are the other sanctions? 1, 2, 3 & 5 or more

 

From ajdenny on 01/03/06

 

Drifting away from the rule of law is never a good thing. Last year I spent six months going to horrific detail about the Holocaust. It burnt out of me any desire to feel secure underneath the blanket of ‘might is right.’ The Nazis did there killing been just as defensive about what the world thought about them as Americans seem to be. To them those they butchered were just the advanced guard of the Jewish / Zionist / Bolshevik hoard who’d be doing the same to them, given the chance.

 

 

From Brandon Clark on 01/03/06

 

I imagine this generation being transported back in time and seeing the results. It seems my generation would have sit idly by while the Jews were gassed and their bodies incinerated, or would’ve protested with a drum circle and people singing kumbaya, which would’ve stopped the moment Gestapo showed up and put 9mm rounds into their skulls.

 

From Tim S. on 01/03/06

 

Since we have a winner aleady, I’d have to say that Kolhammer being pushed into action by Hoover and his men to the point that it gets bloody, is forced to publically air the surveillance tapes. Hoover strokes out and goes tits-up.

 

From ajdenny on 01/03/06

 

Hoover strokes out…oh, you mean he has a stroke. I guess if you can go blind doing enough of what I thought you meant, it’d kill you in the end too.

 

From hooked on 01/04/06

 

Hoover has managed to get enough dirt on a couple of influential senators and with the help of the Christian Right manage to kick Kolhammer out of power.

The 21cers have to try and defeat Hoover through the media.

I hope Hoover only disappears from the alternate universe if a suitably nutty villian replaces him – how about Howard Hughes as the new villian cause Kolhammer has bought all of those strange bugs from the future

When will book three come out

 

From Sejanus on 01/04/06

 

Whacked by CPO Rogas and his SEAL Buddies

 

From Tabman on 01/04/06

 

Happy new year everyone.

A comment I made on a previous thread has led me to reread Robinson’s “Piece of Cake”, and I’ll be tackling some more of his back catalogue for a re-read in the wait until “The Last Good War” is published. So thanks!

 

From Brandon Clark on 01/04/06

 

Hoover is a victim of the new HIV/AIDS epidemic sweeping the world. Basically that queer Nazi in Japan got it from sexual relations with one of the Indonesian crewmen. He in turn gave it to another Nazi who was inserted into America to spy, and he gave it to Hoover…

It is amazing that World War II and Korea changed America so damn much.

 

From Lobes on 01/04/06

 

Brandon: Thats not a bad one.

My suggestion is that Kolhammer puts some of those kick-ass 21C mind-control drugs in Hoovers Bourbon, then uses him as puppet in the post-war Presdential elections with Kolhammer as V-P running mate. Old and new establishment fusing together will help their coalition sweep to power after Teddy finishes. For the campaign speeches Kolhammer makes Hoover wear an earpiece to spout the campaign rhetoric and gives him a bunch of glossy but meaningless projects to champion while the Admiral goes about making a Quiet Room in the White House.

Meanwhile Hoovers kept locked up like a gimp and fed pretzels and beer, only being wheeled out occasionally to visit Schools and Aircraft Carriers.

 

From Brandon Clark on 01/04/06

 

I like the idea of Hoover getting utterly disgraced and within a few years people wonder what happened to Hoover or say “Hoover, what an ass..”

It’d be great if he struggles his hardest against the inevitable future that is America, and utterly fails. I sort of imagine him joining hands with men like Wallace, McGovern and Maddox. I can also see him having a young Martin Luther King Jr assassinated or imprisoned and starting the Red Scare ahead of schedule.

Another idea, some enterprising young up-timer gets one of the Pharmaceutical corporations at the time to produce and sell birth-control pills, thus starting the 60s sexual revolution in the 40s…

 

From Durand on 01/09/06

 

How about this scenario:

Kolhammer turns to the Dark Side.

Why: An admiral of a fleet is, for all intents and purposes, a totalitarian dictator. His word goes, and he can control even the most minute aspects of the lives of his troops (eg, from when they eat breakfast, to the resources they get to fight battles, to who gets to volunteer for the dangerous missions.) In normal times, all that power is curbed by being answerable to a President and civillian administration who can decommission your fleet at the stroke of a pen. But in Kolhammer’s case, he is now effectively the President of the country of California.

Sounds like absolute power. And we know how that corrupts.

So perhaps we end up with a war between The Republic of California and the United States? If that’s the case, all manner of twists could turn up. Eg, for the good of the Republic, J Edgar Hoover could be taken out on Kolhammer’s orders by, say, HRH Harry of Windsor?

 

From Brandon Clark on 01/10/06

 

While a Captain of a warship and especially an admiral have unbelievable power, that comes with unbelievable responsibility. A captain of a warship would do the very best for his men, because ultimately his life and career depends on his men’s actions.

The US Military doesn’t breed power-mad, tyrants. A unit depends on the man in charge, whether it be the senior officer or senior non-com, to lead them well. And the man in charge depends on the men he commands to do their jobs. If the commander fails his men or vice versa, you will get full body bags. The military breeds leaders. Moreover a tyrant snatches power, an officer and a non-com accept the power and responsibility that comes with rank. It is their job to lead, where as a Dictator has no real responsibility to the people he ‘leads’ the responsibility a commander has to his men is unbelievable.

And President Roosevelt actually agrees with Kolhammer and his up-timer’s views on the various social-political-economic issues (race, civil liberties, wealth).

You would have to get rid of FDR and get some one like Lindburgh, Maddox, Wallace or McGovern into the Presidency to see that scenario.

Even then, I don’t think you would see a civil war in America involving the up-timers versus the contemps. You would see the contemporary minorities fighting against the racists and the status quo of contemporary America.

 

From dfdonovan on 01/10/06

 

When confronted with evidence of his bedroom activities and being unable to do anything about it, I can see JEH having a massive stroke.

 

From Anna on 01/11/06

 

Hi there. Have just finished Designated Targets, and I loved it. Particular kudos for the Amanda Garrett ship, as I also enjoyed that series.

Wishing you and your family a Happy New Year.

 

From Brandon Clark on 01/11/06

 

I wonder why Cobb hasn’t written anything else in the Amanda Garret Series.

 

From Flanker Driver on 01/15/06

 

Lobes and Savo – thanks for your replies about that security/freedom quote.

MickH – I got absolutely bagged by a friend (she used to be a veterinary surgeon, until she stuffed up her back) when she read a short story I wrote, because I a polar bear gets killed in it, and she wanted me to change it. I absolutely refused to – yeah, the story is pretty awful, but she didn’t get it! What I was trying to say in the story was that the tragic death was for an awful and misguided reason. When she understood that she was semi-OK about it; and I’ve never had anyone else specifically complain about it…

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